My Sunday Mail column online today.
If you support my position, please go ahead and leave a comment in amongst all the right wing zealots and people who claim to pro-choice but then lambast me for not 'learning my lesson the first time' - like they know anything at all about the circumstances in which both occurred. I also love how they assume I mustn't have been using contraception simply because I was unlucky, when we all know that contraception isn't 100% effective.
Anyway, please do leave a comment in support if so inclined.
UPDATE:
Big big thanks to all those who've gone and put your hat in the ring. It's been a blast ended skrewt of a day and I'm so grateful to have your support. It makes me incredibly sad that the point of my article has been proven - that women won't speak out without guilt or remorse over something like abortion because the reactions she can expect to get are ones of hate, ignorance, judgmental assumptions and sanctimonious bullshit. I'm especially offended by the suggestions of some that I am 'bragging' in the column; that I'm boasting about what I've done, that I'm flippant, that I'm 'wearing the abortions like a badge of honour' - when what I'm ultimately doing is refusing to wear them as a badge of shame.
I'm also frustrated by the assumption that I mustn't have a basic grasp of contraception if I could get pregnant twice. Unfortunately, it's not discriminatory when it comes to failure. It's not like my immune system formed antibodies once the first accidental pregnancy occurred. Note the not so subtle suggestion in there that women are only entitled to one abortion, and that any other mishaps afterwards are just 'too bad' but obviously her fault because she must have gone wading in a pool of semen.
I think it's also interesting how few references there are to my partner's role in the situation - except for one charming chap who asked if I could even remember the names of the fathers.
People seem to forget that becoming pregnant isn't achieved by having sex a thousand times. It only takes one time and one contraception bust up for it to happen. Women who get pregnant in partnerships and want to have the baby are never called sluts. They're never accused of being riddled with STDs, of having AIDS or of being 'toilets' for men to deposit their waste in. But somehow when that pregnancy turns out to be unwanted, the woman automatically becomes a scarlet heathen who nips out of the office on her lunch break to do homeless men at the local park.
I wrote this in my 'response to readers' link on site, but I'd like to repeat it again here: there is no sense in accusing me of selfishness 'because there are thousands of couples out there trying desperately to have a baby and here you are throwing yours away!' I'm deeply sorry for these couples. I appreciate how emotionally draining it must be for them, and how much time and effort they put into trying to conceive. But that doesn't mean I owe them anything simply because I happen to have fallen pregnant accidentally in their place. My decision to have an abortion will not change their ability to conceive.
I'm also annoyed by the people who presume to tell me that my guilt will come later. I know my own feelings and I feel as secure in my decisions today as I did the day I made them. But I repeat: none of this changes the fact that, despite recognising there was only one choice for me and therefore that choice being an easy one to make, it was not an enjoyable experience nor one I would ever have CHOSEN to have to make.
Thank you again for your support. It is basically impossible for the two extremes of opinion to change each other's minds on this subject, but in the face of such deep and powerful hatred it has made the day slightly more bearable to know I have friends and readers who are sympatico.
Peace.
Sunday, January 13, 2008
Online column - with an update.
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28 apples:
You're a legend. I've left not one but two comments on the Sunday Mail website - I love it!!
The comments of some of those fuckwits are truly, truly terrifying. When I was reading the South Dakota anti-abortion law stuff the other day I was actually ignorant enough to think that we didn't have as many fucked up people here as they do over there. Seems I was being a bit too optimistic. They are true FREAKS!! I don't know whether to laugh heartily at their stupidity or acutally cry with despair that I have to share a world with them.
Honestly, I know you are all cool about it, but that took HUGE guts to do that. Petstarr and I have agreed that you deserve a medal, but cos I don't have any medals to give you, I'll buy you a cocktail instead!!
Kathy
Done. I was going to leave a qualifying comment saying that 'I happen to be conservative and right-wing in a lot of ways, but I don't agree with the commenters on this thread', but fuck it. I wouldn't want to be associated with some of the arseholes on that thread if my life depended on it.
What particularly got me was the lectures about safe sex and the 'slut' comments - where did they get that from? The article didn't even touch on the circumstances of your two pregnancies... sheeesh. Talk about assumption.
I also agree you need a huge medal. Like admitting to weight and wages, admitting to abortions is something you just don't do - I wonder how different the comments would have been if people were more open about abortion - probably many sisters/mothers/girlfriends of the commenter's would have been through the procedure at some point.
My post office is next to an abortion clinic and there are protesters there most everytime I go - usually about three retired-looking men standing about giving the eyeball to any young female in the vicinity. I rarely see any female protesters or any that look under the age of 50. Why why WHY do these men choose to spend their retirement doing this than, say, taking up bowls?
End rant. By the way, gorgeous pic with the article.
Wow, it kind of scares me what some of those people have written! I forget that there are so many idiotic morons in the world.
I left a supporting comment that will probably be choked down by all the negative ones :(
ps: you're pretty! it's always odd to see the faces of the writers of the blogs (if that makes any sense).
It's always good to see someone standing up for what they believe in. While I don't think we have quite as many lunatics as they do in the states, I do hope the zealots take it further than posting obnoxious comments.
...I'll buy you a cocktail instead!!
I think I'd need more than one drink if I opened myself up to such personal attacks like that.
Good on you, Audrey. That was such a gutsy column. Totally commendable. I posted a comment to each, but only one was published.
Don't let the emotionally-underdeveloped right-wingers get to you.
Yes, the no contraception assumption is an odd one. Perhaps they also assume you have only ever had sex twice? You and the article are brilliant. I will always remember the day that I read something so honest and devoid of shite in the Advertiser.
Congratulations
my friend had hatred and guilting and manipulation thrown at her too - by the men (and women) in her family as well as her own parents.
My father hated my mother for deciding another child could not an option for her - he regularly referred to her as "the murderer of my son" among other abuse. I hate _him_ for what he did to my mother.
Fantastic column Audrey. I haven't commented over there yet, but I intend to. I've been alternating between anger and frustration as I read the comments, I know that nothing I say will change the minds of pretty much anyone over there, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have my say. The bits that particularly get to me are the ones you've mentioned- the assumption that you didn't use, or don't understand, contraception; the assumption that because it was an easy decision, and you feel no guilt, that you made the decision lightly and will one day be wracked with guilt; and the suggestion from people who claim to be 'pro-choice' that once is ok, but twice means there's something wrong with you.
Again, fantastic comment, well done for putting it out there into the mainstream media- we don't get to see this type of thing as often as we should.
That should be fantastic column, not comment.
If we can't choose not to have children, none of us are really choosing to have them. My decision was different from yours, but the fact remains, it was my decision about my body and my life, my kid wasn't foisted upon me. Perhaps I made a choice your detractors will applaud as the 'right' one. They can fuck right off, because the important point for this debate is that it was My Choice.
Excellent column.
I think Sarah Silverman sums the idea that women "like" getting abortions up perfectly in this short clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr6ohFXXdE8
Also, this comment from her on the new law that makes women wait 24 hours before getting an abortion is genius:
"Quite frankly, I think it's a good law. I was going to get an abortion the other day. I totally wanted an abortion. And then it turns out I was just thirsty"
The amount of vitriol from the anti-choice, pro-forced pregnancy crowd is just unbelievable.
Most of it, no doubt, from people who would call themselves "Christians" - and who clearly need to go back and read the "he who is without guilt" (not that I think you have anything to feel guilty about) and "judge not lest ye be judged" bits of their bibles.
And as for all the people who are claiming your comment that there are babies out there if you want to adopt is wrong - there are too babies. They're just not white, perfectly healthy babies - and the fact is these people, despite their sanctimony, only want white, perfect babies.
I'm trying to think of a carefully worded and intelligent supportive comment to leave on your article.
In the meantime, though, I LOVE the expression "It's been a blast-ended skrewt of a day". :D
sympatico siempre audrey.
i too am trying to think of a suitably well-worded pro choice comment for your article. in the meantime, i just wanted to say how immensely proud i am of you, for giving the large number of women who have chosen and wish to continue to choose the circumstances of their reproductivity a public voice.
Hi,
I am quite new to this blogging thing.. been a lurker for a long time.
I just want to say thank you for using your voice to put forward your experience.
I have had an abortion too. I don't regret it at all. But I do know what you mean about how people expect you to feel guilty..
For me a hard part was not being able to express any grief that I might have felt, then or later. Note - I didn't say regret. But there is not a lot of room for grief either. I feel in away that because it is so taboo to talk about in the mainstream that is is hard to address the gamut of emotions every woman (and man) involved goes through. To me it seems like people are often to scared to say that it was sad, in case that is misconstrued as regret.
I'm probably not making much sense - I just wanted to say that I think what you wrote was brave, even more so for the platform that you wrote in, and the honest unhysterical replies that you give to some of the idiots that leave comments.
Thank you!
I certainly admire your courage for writing the column with a level of frankness and a sense of confrontation rarely seen in mainstream journalism nowdays. Be a little careful with the level of confrontation, there are many lunatics in the world who are very very irrational about this subject. I am guessing you want to educate people about the pro choice arguements and not grandstand,as you have been accused of. I certainly believe you are a very entertaining writer who has great ability to change people's mind and educate on subjects that are somewhat ignored or at best, blandly reported. Being so confrontational in your language ( ie easy choice) may turn people off the seriousness of your message and scare an unsure person. Anybody on the margins of the issues could be turned off by the in your face point of view. The world needs courageous writers, who have a real point of view, but if you are so highly personlised you may dilute the effect of your efforts. Just a thought. Also, watch out for the lunatic fringe. They don't value free speach if it is against their point of view!! Good luck to you and it is great to see a writer with real courage of their convictions.
I have been reading this blog on and off for a little while and have seen Audrey compared to many things that I often considered over dramatizing the situation or exaggerating the meaning of the course of her words and actions. I have seen nazi comparisons bandied around and the response to them (no more anonymous posting) so I want to be quite careful about making comparisons here.
What I would like to say, is that whenever we see the basic human rights stripped from an individual or group it is usually justified in the minds of those who do it by somehow dehumanizing the target, saying they don't deserve those rights. The murderers behind the bodies in the barrels case justified their actions by saying their targets were pedophiles and homosexuals so they are less than human. Most of the major religious groups have at some point in history attacked some group outside their religious group, justifying their actions by saying "they aren't a [insert religious group here] so they are worthless". And the justification of the Nazi's was that they are not part of the master race so are little better than animals.
That is little different than what I see here except that the group being discriminating against is never seen and has no voice. "It is only a bunch of cells", "It isn't really a life". This is what you are saying, but what you mean is that this life is less important than your way of life, that it doesn't deserve the basic human rights that I deserve. It would be inconvenient to me for it to continue living so I would rather kill it than let it get in my way.
You can say it is my body, it is my choice, but this is not true. It has its own body, from before a woman usually knows she is pregnant it has all its parts, it is not just an amorphous blob of cells. Here is a snippet from wikipedia:
"8 weeks (condition at start of fetal stage)
The risk of miscarriage decreases sharply at the beginning of the fetal stage.[7] At this point, all major structures, including hands, feet, head, brain, and other organs are present, but they continue to grow, develop, and become more functional.[8] When the fetal stage commences, a fetus is typically about 30 mm (1.2 inches) in length, and the heart is beating.[9] The fetus bends the head, and also makes general movements and startles that involve the whole body.[10] Some fingerprint formation can be seen from the beginning of the fetal stage.[11] "
It has arms and legs and internal organs and a heartbeat by this stage. It reacts to stimuli and gets startled.
You say it may miscarry anyway, but it may die of SIDS or drown in a pool or get hit by a car so how is this any different than killing a small child, just because you want to go out and don't want to stay home to look after a kid.
Some people on here say the Christians should not speak beacause the bible says "judge not lest ye be judge", this means you forgive people their sins, but it does not mean it should be condoned or encouraged. If a person tries to steal from me I will forgive them but that doesn't mean I won't try to stop them. Likewise, if I see someone trying to steal something belonging to someone else I won't sit back and do nothing. And if someone tries to kill someone else I won't keep out of it because I may have sinned. Here the most basic right, that of life is being taken from another human being and you expect everyone but out because you know a line from the bible. The fact that these words come from those who spend so much time and effort pushing for the rights of women will so quickly discard the rights of another who gets in there way would almost be funny if it weren't so serious. Just last week you were discussing that although women have the right to choose, not all of their choices are good ones.
I was walking with my little girl today, (she was an accidental pregnancy, the sort you would probably have aborted) and she saw the moon in the afternoon sky. She said "Look Daddy! Moon! I can't reach it. It too far away" (she is 2 now). I said to her "I can't reach it either". She replied "Oh. Get a ladder". After reading your article, this popped into my head and I wonder how old your kids would be now, would they be little boys, girls or one of each, would they have looked like their mummy? And you felt relieved when they were gone.
All of the time I have been reading this blog and your articles I have thought of you as strong willed and opinionated and although your opinion usually differed from mine I did respect you. I see now that you are actually just loud and heartless. We have met before, but I don't really want to meet you again. I know I would have trouble looking you in the eye.
Much like you, I have had more than one abortion (three, in fact). Also, much like you, they were the right choice for me and I have not felt one ounce of guilt over any of them. They were, at the time, the best decision for me and I would do it again, if that were the case. I am a pro choicer to the core and have walked in rallies to say that. I have had talks with other women who are considering whether to have an abortion and those that are against it. In the end, the choice is up to the individual (and/or couple), and that is the way it needs to stay. No stranger can tell me what to do with my body, nor should they be coming after you for doing what you wanted to with yours. I recently chose to have a child and, at that time, it was the right choice for me. Before it was not. Should I feel guilt over either choice? I think not.
I applaud your decisions and your courage. You are an amazing voice and I am glad that I came across your blog. Thank you so much for voicing what others have not, and for standing up to those zealots that seem to think that God made us all one way - to follow others blindly like sheep and do as we are told. We were given the ability to reason and think for ourselves for a purpose. You, I and others like us will always be looked down at by those zealots and we will always come out of it the stronger and more reasonable of the two. That's just the way of it. Keep on keeping on Audrey.
Hi, I got your link from Hoyden. I really appreciate your article- it's scary to be the odd man out, but really brave- what I good thing for women to hear- that we should not be shamed. Just the perspective of a whole woman completely ignored in favor of a fantasy perspective of a glob of cells. Kudos!
After reading this particular post, I am curious. You've obviously slogged through lots of the comments you received regarding your article, and even broke down some reactions for us. I'd like to know the proportions of the various negative reactions you've received, as well as the positive ones. Articles cause folks from both sides to crawl out of the woodwork, and for that reason the proportions may not be representative, but still perhaps interesting to see.
I love organizing things, it was my first instinct after reading this post.
Once again, thanks, keep up the positivity!
I also came over from Hoyden. I don't have anything else worth adding other than thank you for refusing to be ashamed.
I think it's a little more complex than just 'the womans choice', surely the thoughts of the father are also considered and valued in a stable and respectful relationship.
The views of the father, in a valued and respectful relationship, are important. They still don't get to make the decision on their partner's behalf.
It is women who carry pregnancies, with all the attendant risks to their health and economic future, it is women who give birth, and it is almost always women who care for children for the biggest portion of the day and night. I'm glad in my relationship my partner is insightful enough to recognise that and respect my right to choose. (And he gets to choose to stick around or bugger off to New Zealand)
You are forgetting that there is a third person involved. The father and mother have made their choice and that has resulted in the life of another. You are saying that the mother then has the right to choose life or death but the father doesn't because he has less to lose. The mother isn't the biggest stake holder however, the biggest stakeholder is the one whose life hangs in the balance. Neither the mother has the right to choose.
"The views of the father, in a valued and respectful relationship, are important."
True, that is exactly the point I'm trying to make. It's just the wording of the phrase 'the womans right to choose' seems a little insensitive. It takes two people to conceive a child and the opinions of the father need to be considered with respect, even if the decison is ultimately that of the woman.
"They still don't get to make the decision on their partner's behalf".
Also true, and this just comes down to human circumstance.
But you must remember that even if you as an individual have the belief that a 12 week old fetus is not a human life doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else does.
--------------------------------------
Audrey I believe that stating that this was not a difficult decision for you sounded deeply insensitive. I'll admit that I don't have full understanding of your situation but I'm fairly sure that even if you didn't care about your decision, someone did, your friends maybe, possibly your family, someone.
I'm not trying to guilt you into feeling anything, I'm just trying to promote some sense of understanding.
The truth is I am in agreement with you and I also don't believe something which is not yet self-aware is can be considered a person. An opinion of that kind requires a belief in the existence of the soul, or of divergent reality, neither of which I posess.
However again I stress that these are not the views of everyone. Saying the decision wasn't diffficult for you gives the impression you didn't consider it, which in turn gives the impression you didn't take the decision seriously and appears (albeit probably unintentionally) deeply insensitive.
You scoff at the comments you recieved for the article you wrote, I ask of you this, what response did you honestly expect?
If you are intentionally inflammatory, you can't become defensive when you create flames.
Say what you will about the feminist movement and it's ability to promote self-expression personal freedom and generally do good, the truth is you are capable of being deeeply unempathetic people.
You need to value the ideas of others even if you disagree with them, otherwise you're just expressing the same intolerance as the people you claim to be marginalised by.
You seem to be continually asking me why I frequent this blog because (from your perspective) all I seem to do is criticise you. Firstly it is because I value your opinion even though I don't necessarily always agree with it. Secondly it is because I want you to consider perspectives of others when those perspectives are relevant.
But no doubt, in response to this post I will either recieve a highly defensive reactionary post or a post in which you attempt to avoid the issue by attempting to belittle me for my lack of understanding of the geo-political landscape of the asia-pacific region or inability to spell.
I'm a little late to this hubbub but I just wanted to say thank you so much for having the guts to write an article like this.
I too have had an abortion and apart from some close friends, I've always felt too ashamed to tell anyone. Which is ridiculous, isn't it? I definately don't regret my decision and I was never in doubt at the time that it was the right choice for me. And I am very vocal in my support for women's rights to reprodutive choice. You've totally inspired me to be more open about my own experience.
Let's face it, no-one WANTS to have an abortion - it's invasive and unpleasant. Every feminist I know wishes no woman ever had to have an abortion. But denying women access is NOT the answer. The answer is in cheap, reliable, easy to use contraception that would prevent women from becoming pregnant if they choose not to. But it's weird how you never hear these anti-choice zealots talking about how to help women gain access to effective contraception to prevent unwanted pregnancies from occurring. As usual, it's more about misogynistic stigmatisation of women.
You are my new hero for sticking it to those dickheads!
Katie
Hi
You may not remember me (though I think you would), but we went to Uni together.
I stumbled across your blog only because your recent Sunday Mail columm has been linked all over the blogosphere. I'm absolutely thrilled to find out such a clear, incisive, honest article was written by someone I know. Well done, and please, keep on being courageous.
NicC
Thank you very much for you posts.
There's been a bit of debate in the New Zealand debate on abortion as well.
http://exexpat1.blogspot.com/2008/03/forgotten-story-in-abortion-debate.html
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